Wednesday, May 28, 2008

Dawkins and the Horrors or Religion

One of the things that Dawkins and the new atheists like to do is point out the terrible things that religion has done over the ages. They pull together enough examples to leave their audience stupefied and conclude, rather wildly, that religion must be therefore evil. Or, at least, the world would be better off without it. All of it.

There are a lot of problems with this, both historical and logical. The logical problem is this: do religious communities perform atrocities because they are religious, or because they're made up of humans. Again I wonder if Dawkins has used that handy old scientific method to isolate his variables. For example, do we see less aggression, greed, etc from atheists than we do from normal people? I'd certainly never argue that atheists can't be good people; I think they can be. But are we suddenly going to take the dizzying leap into saying that atheists tend to be better people, more generous, forgiving, etc? Shouldn't we have a problem with atheists even using the word "better" and thereby imposing their morals on us? That's what they accuse me of doing. Isn't that at least a little bit ironic?

Historically, the case is even better. The trouble here is that neither Dawkins nor his ilk seems to have read any recent, peer-reviewed literature on some of the pop-history they're parading around. (And yes, for the record, I have - history is my background. No pun intended.) Here are two big examples, since Christianity is often picked on in these debates, being the dominant faith in the West.

We'll deal with one thing at a time, since they're worth talking about in their own right. Others will get their own posts. First up:

1) The Crusades! Look at that, shout the new atheists, "Holy wars! Holy wars!!!" Much is made of this one, but it's a canard. And, honestly, the objective version is much more interesting. So:

The Pop-History Version: Those nasty Europeans, goaded by that nasty pope, launched a war against those poor people in the Holy Land. I hardly have to go into it; all the stereotypes speak for themselves. And, admittedly, atrocities occurred on both sides in this war as in any war. The attacks on Jews, for example, or the sack of Constantinople. But consider-

The Historical History: Europe at the time of the Crusades was hardly a super power. In fact, Islam was far more powerful and culturally advanced than Europe. Europe was the underdog and, more importantly, Christianity was the underdog that had been beaten back by the conquering Muslims for the first 400 years after Mohammed. In the first hundred years of Islam's life a full half of Christian lands fell to their armies. After the dominance of the Romans, this was an impressive feat.

But they also continued from their, pushing across North Africa into Spain and Sicily, taking much of Asia Minor (Turkey.) The Byzantine emperors fought as well as they could, with some success, but then the nomadic Seljuks arrived from the steppes, converted to Islam, and layed waste to the Bysantine Empire. In desperation the Emperor called on the Western Pope for aid and he was answered.

The old idea was that knights went for the purpose of gaining land, but current scholarship has knocked that theory on the head. Many who went were already wealthy and funded both themselves and their retinues. It was an extremelt costly endeavour and a knight would have to provide his own supplies, requiring as much as a year worth of income. Modern historians are discovering that crusaders generally believed in what they were doing, which was pushing back an oppressor that had been hounding them for centuries.

In that sense, the Crusades were a series of defensive wars fought to stem the attacks on Constantinople and to take back some of what had been lost, especially Jerusalem. In the end they were a failed defense, though they were able to accomplish wonders with the small number of men who actually made it, and considering how rarely they were given reinforcements. But it was a wash, and the world of Islam remained undiminished.

For a Christian Europe that wanted to remain Christian this was unfortunate. Islam continued pressing on its borders, taking lands in Eastern Europe and holding Spain until almost 1500. In 1453 the Muslims took Constantinople (renaming it Istanbul of all things, which was just a bastardization/mispronunciation of the Greek word for "The City") and continued pressing in on Europe. As late as 1683 the Ottoman Turks threatened Vienna itself, though they failed in that at least.

In the end it was only the discovery of the New World and the wealth that came with it that allowed Europe to build the ships and the armies it would take to defeat Islam. Much later it was the Europeans who were colonizing. But that was much later. If we examine the Crusades we see a very different picture than mere imperialism. Europe was too weak and divided to be imperial in its ambitions, and imposing an 18th Century vision of Europe onto the 11th Century hardly seems fair. Colonialism hadn't even been invented yet!

Now, every culture has a right to exist. European culture also has that right. The Crusades were a matter of a civilization struggling and failing to defend itself from an outside threat. Christianity was certainly involved, since the words Europe and Christian were (at the time) more or less synonymous.

Summation? Here's one historical nugget that often gets cited as a proof of how brutal religion is at its core. And yet these wars were justifiable, far more so than some of the recent conflicts we've seen in the name of democracy.

12 comments:

Anonymous said...

Well, another arguement that is not unknown to me. We discuss it rather constantly in Vatican or Latin, but useful for the rest of the pleb population. Eloquent defense Johnson, I commemmorate you. Next, and no one will suspect it...
THE SPANISH INQUISITION!

Mr. Johnson said...

"THE SPANISH INQUISITION!"

However did you guess?

Anonymous said...

Johnson,
I know we went over this a few times in Vatican but there's one question that I don't remember having answered even know you probably did, so I apologize.
And I know it wasn't actually the point of the entry, but I'm just wondering:

You said that the reason Islam was defeated was because of the discovery of the New World. Do you honestly believe that if it weren't for the western world that Islam would have conquered all of Europe, possibly expanding to Asia, etc.?

I understand why the resources and such helped the Crusaders, it's just very hard, in our world today, to imagine Islam actually taking control of so much, simply due to a lack of resources.

Mr. Johnson said...

"Do you honestly believe that if it weren't for the western world that Islam would have conquered all of Europe, possibly expanding to Asia, etc.?"

Maybe. And it's hard to tell. Europe was starting to settle into a fairly advanced society by 1500, and it's military technology was already beyond Islam by the time of the Crusades (Knights trump light cavalry, but there were too few.)

Europe's technology was advancing. But the Ottoman Empire was huge, the Persians were still powerful. And if the two had trusted one another more (they were and still are rivals) Europe probably would have fallen.

So, it might be better to say that Europe was close to gaining a stalemate, but the bets were too close to call. The New World brought new resources, but the age of exploration also brought a wild improvement in ship-building, navigation. All of that together let us win at Lepanto.

So I was too quick in my summary. But it could have gone the other way very easily. The really interesting thing is that it may yet.

Anonymous said...

"The really interesting thing is that it may yet."

Now I'm hoping you elaborate on that as well. Haha.

Anonymous said...

So in your opinion would you call Dawkins a heretic. You have to wonder can an atheist be one or is it some double nagative. Another thing, at what point did islam fall behind in the technolgy race with europe.

Anonymous said...

It's hard to say exactly when this transition took place in history. Well into the 17th Century, the Ottoman Empire was still a formidable power that was unmatched in military and economic prowess. It was during the 1700s in the midst of the Industrial Revolution when the cracks really began to show in their domination. European countries like Great Britain, Prussia and France industrialized rather quickly in the face of competition, however the Ottoman Empire progressed much less quickly. Also in the 18th Century, by exploring the Europeans were able to create new trade routes which bypassed the Ottoman land trade routes and expanding powers such as the Austrians and Russians put the Ottomans on the defensive. The Turkish Empire started to really be seen as the "Sick Man of Europe" by the rest of Europe during the 19th Century and in 1922, after WWI, they were finally dissolved at the hands of the French and British.

Azexis said...

Just wanted to add a link at the Catholic Education Site. The article is written by the author of the second Spanish Inquisition Article. Its really good, and it sounds like Johnson borrowed a lot of ideas from it. It elaborates where Johnson summarized and is a good read for anyone more interested in The Crusades. Also, in reference to Johnson's forboading concluding line, the Muslims are already marching back into Europe, with its declining growth rate, lack of religious unity. The Muslims will soon begin to overrun in a very subtle conquest of once Christian lands. And unfortunately, when the Europeans realize this, it will be likely too late, and will react with violence, out of fear. Which is quite understandable. When a man feels his nation threatened and nearly defeated, he will do all in his power to prevent it from happening.

Jeremy W.

Mr. Johnson said...

Chubbs,
Dawkins isn't a heretic. He's an atheist. Remember that a heretic is teachnically someone of the same faith who tries to tamper with it.

Jeremy,
I didn't have to copy anything in the articles. It's relatively common knowledge for anyone who's studied medieval history or read into the matter. For real background on the relationship between the West and Islam, read Bernard Lewis (or take courses.)

Azexis said...

First off, I can call anyone a heretic if they are not Catholic. Just because. And if not a heretic, then pleb or wench will do. And I didn't mean that you copied him, I'm just saying that its a good article. I think I worded my previous post wrong. I also forgot the link which is: http://catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0055.html
It was not an attack on your knowledge of history, I meant to say it is parallel to what you were talking about in your article, just more in depth.

Jeremy W.

Anonymous said...

I am quite impressed with how quickly the word heretic has has been bastardized by all of us. Personally, I blame Chubbs.
I also would like to point out that had Islam taken Europe, Dawkins would likely not exist, and if he did, "Mohammed" Dawkins would be swiftly killed for expressing any of his views on religion. He should be thankful for the crusades.

Anonymous said...

yes very good ha ha, heare heare i say